Make anti-vaccine parents pay higher premiums

[zorger]

Walnut Creek, California (CNN) -- Evidence disputing any link between autism and vaccines has been gathering for a decade. The anti-vaccine movement's lynchpin, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, has been shown to be nothing more than a grifter in a lab coat, with the prestigious British Medical Journal calling his work "an elaborate fraud."

Two new books, "Deadly Choices" by Paul Offit and "The Panic Virus" by Seth Mnookin, detail the sordid story of the anti-vaccine movement.

Given that, it's hard for me to believe that some parents still refuse to vaccinate their children. But they do, frightened by the rants and raves of anti-vaccine fundamentalists such as Jenny McCarthy, who can effortlessly get on "Oprah" or any other TV talk show to advance what is nothing short of a myth.

full text at http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/01/20/p ... index.html

An itneresting idea, Zorger, but there are problems with many vaccines that have yet to be sorted out ... there are side effects that the drug companies may or may not be aware of, and ALL medication has side effects. These affect different people in different ways -- some people are not affected in any way, but a proportion are. It is not unreasonable or foolish for parents to wish to protect their children in the way that seems most sensible to them and neither should they be penalised for their choices.

I would draw your attention to the most recent vaccination programmed here in the UK - that of Swine Influenza. Had it not been for the vigilance of a Czech Republic technician doing a routine ad hoc test, LIVE virus would have been injected into hundreds of people in Europe. Vaccination is a valuable tool, but it is not a panacea. Mistakes happen and people can be adversely affected. It must be left to parents to choose and decide the best way to protect their children.

Agreed, they should base their judgments on sound knowledge and good information but they should not just blindly follow the edicts and recommendations of those with a vested interest in selling medications.

I know whereof I speak, I have been a registered nurse for 25 years.

Bright Blessings

Kyrien

[zorger]

Hi Kyrien,

I fully agree that parents should know the risks associated with vaccinations and that nothing is 100% safe for all people. Vaccinations have saved 100s of millions of more people then they have harmed.

The recent backlash against vaccinations because of is mostly because of fraudulent studies like this http://blogs.forbes.com/robertlangreth/ ... al-system/

Here in the US babies are dying because their parents did not have their older siblings vaccinated against whooping cough: http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-w ... 9546.story

I doubt that paying a higher premium would make a parent compromise his or her principles. If they believe it's introducing danger to their children, they'll pay whatever the cost is. In the end, they end up paying the highest cost of all, in the loss of a child. They believe they are doing the right thing for their children. I don't know if you have children, but if you do, wouldn't you pay a higher premium to protect them from something you perceived as being toxic? This motivation to protect their loved ones can be leveraged with a little information. What they need is for someone to explain to them the consequences of their actions. Ultimately, the decision is theirs. What they need is information.

When my son was an infant, I had learned through a report on Dateline NBC back around 2000 that there was a link between the hepatitis B vaccine and lupus, arthritis, multiple sclerosis, optic neuritis and other neurological disorders.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/07/cbsnews_investigates/main5369814.shtml

Keeping in mind that only hepatitis A is common in children, I delayed having my oldest son vaccinated for hepatitis B only. It is a mandatory vaccination, and I could not enter him in school until he had gotten it. In the end, I relented only because of the government's mandate. However, in the California whooping cough epidemic you referenced, this had nothing to do with hep B vaccines. At this point, the story had gotten away from itself. It was tribal knowledge.

While Dateline NBC is a trusted source of information, in this case they had bad data. The very study that turned out to be fraudulent is the one that they used for the basis of their story. It's CBS's website that carries the current version of the story in the link above. It's considered to be common knowledge at this point. Now Forbes is carrying the story refuting the original claims.

NBC broke this story thirteen years ago, and I would imagine at one point or another, all the networks would have covered some version of it. It doesn't appear that the particular preservative that was in the original offending vaccine is in much use anymore, probably due to public outcry.

So where are the networks now? Is it possible that this story isn't sensational enough to warrant a big story? We have something we didn't have thirteen years ago, though. Social networking websites. Those of us with facebook and twitter accounts should be recommending this article so that reasoning people who were making the decision they thought was safe for their children can be given more data to make better decisions.

Unfortunately, though, rumors are much tougher to kill then they are to create. Conspiracy theorists and alarmists will have a hard time adjusting to this new information.

Let's hope it's right this time.

[zorger]

The problem is that fear and ignorance are a powerful combination. Here's a related interview of Bill Gates who is perhaps the greatest promoter of vaccination world:

"Dr. Wakefield has been shown to have used absolutely fraudulent data. He had a financial interest in some lawsuits, he created a fake paper, the journal allowed it to run. All the other studies were done, showed no connection whatsoever again and again and again. So it's an absolute lie that has killed thousands of kids. Because the mothers who heard that lie, many of them didn't have their kids take either pertussis or measles vaccine, and their children are dead today"

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/02/03/gu ... tml?hpt=C2

I just wish this had gotten more balanced coverage back in 1998. I see now that this has been all over the place over the last thirteen years. For me, this was the first I'd heard of it since it broke thirteen years ago. I found a timeline from about six months ago that clarified things for me. I don't always keep as current on current events as I'd like.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article7134903.ece

It's easy to blame fear. FDR's famous quote about there being nothing to fear but fear itself had its place when it came to the depression, but there are times when fear is appropriate. Fear plays a valuable biological role. People with damaged amygdalas, for example, who are unable to feel fear, typically end up on a path to self-destruction. It's natural, and even a good thing, to have some protectiveness of yourself and your loved ones. The alternative is apathy.

As far as ignorance, I'll accept that. I accepted bad information.

I, like many people, don't have a medical degree. As an nineteen-year-old father, I relied on authoritative evidence to make decisions, and didn't subject it to as much scrutiny as I should have. Like I said, I delayed my own son's Hep B vaccine because what I perceived to be the cost outweighed what I believed to be the benefit. I, like many, was conned.

I've put my education to the forefront again finally. There's really no substitute for empirical evidence.

Take care,
George
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
For more discussion about Spiritual Humanism with additional resource development for active celebrants and officiants, please visit: http://spiritualhumanismforum.com

I just recently had a discussion about vaccinations and kidney disease with someone on facebook. She has the belief, from a blog entry by a doctor, that some vaccinations (specifically polio, iirc) can cause kidney damage. No evidence cited by the doctor, other than opinion, and none that I could find in any reputable source online (pubmed, etc). But I'm willing to bet that this gets some traction and takes off, especially with the vaccines-cause-autism crowd.

I am very new here and know this subject is probably dead with all of you at this point, but I feel compelled to share my experience. I am a mother of 9 and grandmother of soon to be 10 grandchildren. I am not a doctor but I do have my masters in behavioral science. My first born child had all of his shots with minimal side effects. My second child received 1 round of her first "baby shots" and I almost lost her. She had almost every side effect listed for that particular inoculation. I decided at that point that I would not risk the loss of another one of my children to immunizations. When my children were past the age of 5 I had done some more research and decided that it was more detrimental to have them immunized at a younger age verses older, so I went ahead and had them immunized after the age of 5. There were no notable signs of complications, not even a fever. I think it is rediculas to impose laws or penalties and the personal rights that belong personal. I would also like to know what this has to do with our ministry?

Well, most humanists are skeptics of unsubstantiated claims and supporters of scientific research. The research overwhelmingly shows that vaccinating kids early is much better for the kids and the kids around them. The anti-vax people are essentially promoting pseudo scientific superstition. For me it falls into the same category as astrology, numerology, naturopathy. All things humanists should oppose. it is relatively common to see vax discussions taking place in skeptic, atheist, agnostic, and scientific forums (fora?). One of the most recent tactics of the anti-vax crowd is to move in the direction you are advocating, immunizing later. It's kind of a thin tip of the wedge approach. Take what appears to be a compromise position to move a debate that they are losing in a direction that is at least a bit more to their liking. I am not suggesting that you are doing this. I don't know you or your personal story. I am just noting a tactic I have seen used and discussed of late.

I do congratulate and support your having a large family. Good for you!

PastorDave, http://pastor-dave.org
Humanist Officiant in Seattle and throughout Puget Sound.
For more discussion about Spiritual Humanism with additional resource development for active celebrants and officiants, please visit: http://spiritualhumanismforum.com

I am anti-vaccine. Two of my children had reactions to the same vaccine, The second shot- aka booster shot caused a sever reaction in my oldest child. The reactions were documented and supposedly the results were sent to the CDC however I never received any follow- up documentation which is why my oldest ended up having to get the booster per public school requirements. They need a better system. I should have received some sort of documentation from the CDC on the first negative reaction each of them had.

[zorger]

Hi LadyeFalcon, welcome to the forum! I am sorry to hear your children had a bad reaction. One of the reasons people get so emotional about things like vaccines is that at when it is all said and done, Mom and Dad are ultimately the ones that must make sure that their kids are safe.

Unfortunately leaving your children un-vaccinated does not only effect them. They can act as carriers for diseases and spread them to new born babies which are quite deadly to them, like whooping cough. I don't know how bad the reactions your kids had to being vaccinated, or even if it was the vaccine that made them sick. But I am sure you would not want to be responsible for the death of a little baby that your child transmitted a disease to. New born babies cannot get vaccines to diseases that are deadly to them for many, many months. Yes having a shot does make them scream, get sore, and sometimes ill. But not getting the shot does not just effect your child, it effects all children.

Before my new son, Griphin, was born the pediatricians that mama and I were reviewing said something that changed everything for me. The Doctors said, "The reason we give them vaccinations is because we do not have a way to make them better if they get sick."

Washington State just declared a Pertussis epidemic (whooping cough). A private high school (Blanchet) about 2 miles from my house was closed down last week because of a pertussis outbreak immediately before their prom. Herd immunity is breaking down, and for no good reason.

PastorDave